Interesting how you got through all that without mentionign Teilhard de Chardin, and even mentioned overmind withoutknaming Aurobindo.
“Wake up to discover that you are the eyes of the world” —Grateful Dead
Posted by jayskew on February 14, 2008 at 4:20 PM“Atheists counter the contradictions in their own view by claiming our ignorance and inabilities can be overcome via science.”
You left out a legitimate position: agnostic. Both theists and hard atheists seem to paint agnostics as intellectual cowards or something, but this is bullshit, in my opinion.
I am what I call a hard agnostic - not only do I not know if a God exists, or what it might be “like” if it did, but I cannot know. And I believe that no one can. Talking about God, to me, edges over into the realm of futility, or diddling with semantics. Good clean fun, sure (if you ignore the periodic slaughter done in the name of said God), but not really all that useful at the end of the day.
I suppose I lean towards the atheist point of view, but in fact, it doesn’t matter. Who knows?
Also, being an atheist/agnostic does not necessarily lead to a belief that “science” will eventually understand everything. We’re talking apes, fer cryin’ out loud. I don’t know what touched off the Big Bang. Neither do you, nor anyone else. Will we figure it out some day? Then what? Turtles all the way down.
What is wrong with uncertainty? Why is it that everything we “don’t know” has to be filled with “God”? And if it is “God”, so what?
We make some maps and models, some of which seem to be congruent to the way the world works, and some of which are useful to us. This is science. Sure, some people can and do make a religion of science. People make religions out of weirder stuff than science all the time!
Not sure where I’m going with this, so I’ll quit now :-)
- Steve
Interesting discussion. A couple of points:
there are more than a few who believe in a “God [that] is defined as less than infinite,” - the 13 million Mormons for one. It removes some contradictions, though I am sure not all.
Your physics is a little off here:
“solids […] were revealed to be mostly space and tiny whirling bits. When they unpacked those whirling bits inside, they, too, were found to be mostly emptiness slightly populated by further tinier bits inside.”
— I don’t think “whirling bits” is a good description of the electron charge density field that makes solids “solid” - there’s real physical resistance associated with quantum non-localizability of light particles at the smallest scales. And electrons have no substructure that we know of; nuclei do, but quarks again do not. So I think your statement goes too far and really doesn’t reflect what science really sees in these systems.
Posted by Arthur Smith on October 6, 2007 at 2:34 PMPrecisely, Recently i was reading an article about how high energy particle colliders could theoretically create miniature universes on the end of a black hole. It occured to me that this process could be happening with every star that collapses on itself into a black hole, theres certainly enough energy for it to happen.
If this or some kind of equivalent such as artificially created universes would imply that even universes “evolve”.. each universe spawning an infinity of universes (provided the universe continues to expand.. unless it crunches into a black hole aswell in some feat of rebirth or tears itself apart into universes which also expand etc etc)the conditions within each universe could be slightly different, identical or drastically different (conditions representing similarities to mutation and genetics)
Basically.. the universe works like a giant quantum-bacterial computer.. my two cents. Good explanations
Posted by Brian on March 20, 2007 at 8:21 PMA big thank you from Spain for your inspiring thoughts! This is my attempt at answering a few questions you raise in this post. Consciousness is not created over time. It did not begin when the human brain became capable of being aware of itself. Neither can consciousness be seen as something that has ‘always’ existed in time because it exists ‘outside’ the realms of time/space. It simply ‘is’ and our awareness of consciousness became possible when our brains had evolved sufficiently for this purpose. Therefore, consciousness or ‘God’ is a constant, existing in a pure state of infinite organizing power from which all ‘sounds’, energy and matter ‘unfold’. In this case, God certainly is everything, including us and everything that extends from us, such as our technologies. This would justify your notion (and mine) that technology has self-fulfilling purpose. Our wishes are Gods wishes are technologies wishes because they are all one and the same. We are evolving into the full expression of God on the material level. Therefore, it follows that all the suffering in the world (used by many to prove the non-existence of God) will simply evaporate and be forgotten as if it had never existed. Suffering is simply a ‘lack’ of God, the non-adherence to Natural Law (yes, God unfolds according to a plan)! The ‘forbidden fruit’ analogy serves this purpose well. Also, Vedic knowledge flows directly from the source of pure intelligence and differentiates good or bad actions by the fruit that they bear. As a collective, humans are starting to act on this knowledge by rejecting/replacing all the destructive practices that have plagued humanity for thousands of years. It has been our inability to flow with Gods ‘will’ that has kept us from nurturing admirable goals such as ‘world peace’. Achieving world peace is easy: create peace in one individual x 6,000,000,000! The jigsaw is nearly complete. The convergence of religion, science and vedic knowledge is upon us. It’s time for all the separate camps to stop defending their blinkered point of view and to open up to all the possibilities. They could spend the rest of their lives debating this topic with no outcome. Talking about it will not produce the effect, the same way that talking about a light switch will not turn on the light! This requires a leap of faith from all participants. To understand something fully you need to cognize it (I recommend meditation as the most powerful technology to achieve this). God is manifesting itself through us and then referring back to the source in that constant loop that is self-referral consciousness. The computer program analogy holds because everything is imbued with consciousness (even a rock!) I believe that, although we have a healthy obsession with AI, Real Intelligence will beat us to it, and all in a quantum moment! This suggests that God is creating its own ‘platform’ through which it can express itself on the level of intellect. So, will it be a world-wide network of ‘God-controlled’ computers or a network of enlightened human minds…or both! In the end it’s all just God whispering to itself so it won’t matter much if the conversation is between organic, machine or pure energy entities. I’ve enjoyed this but I’ll wrap it up: perfection in life, Heaven on Earth, Utopia etc. are all reasonable scenarios in the aforementioned circumstances, although, most certainly not the end of the process. In fact, it could be where all the fun begins, as wise human beings, machines and nature move as one to fulfill the purpose of evolution.
Posted by Javier Lopez on February 12, 2007 at 11:26 PMExcellent, Kevin!
My new book, “Thank God for Evolution! How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will Transform Your Life and Our World”, due to be published this fall by Council Oak Books, focuses on just the sort of issues you raise. Exciting times!
Posted by Michael Dowd on February 8, 2007 at 1:10 PMType the characters you see in the picture above.






i was wondering where dark matter would come into play… if dark matter can be every where yet no where at once then what do we classify it as?? I seem to remember when everyone thought that the expansion of the universe was slowing down. how wrong we were, it is accelerating, and it is doing so because of dark matter.. so does that make dark matter our key to the universe.. AKA. GOD?????
Posted by mitch on April 3, 2008 at 11:18 AM