Hi Kevin, I saw you conference at video.google.com (The Next Fifty Years of Science ) and I am very interested. As I am working on the concept of Computer Aided Innovation, many of the concepts you mentioned for science may also, from my point of view, apply for inventions and innovations: The next 50 years will change the way we make inventions and innovations more than the past 500 years did. Any comments? Best regards,
Noel
Posted by Noel Leon on October 9, 2006 at 3:22 AMThanks, Jean-Claude.
Posted by Kevin Kelly on March 21, 2006 at 7:42 PMKevin - you make a number of good points about how science might change. I think the near term, the real time publication of experimental results using a blog/wiki approach has a chance of having an immediate impact on how science takes place. Although I think there is a place for publishing in the format of an article for human consumption, this will lag behind publication of the raw data that is more amenable to automated processing. We are attempting to make this shift in my organic chemistry lab my using blogs to record experimental data and a wiki to organize higher level concepts. http://usefulchem.blogspot.com http://usefulchem.wikispaces.com
Posted by Jean-Claude Bradley on March 20, 2006 at 11:03 AMMichael,
Of course I disagree with John Horgan on the future of science. I find it ludicrous that we should have discovered the major contours of everything in such a short time, especially since once you start to ask reallly hard questions, you find out that we really don’t know anything at all.
Andres,
I like the work of both Wolfram and Kurzweil, but I don’t think their ideas are singular. And BTW, mine aren’t either.
Arthur,
I think you are correct that the catagories of disciplines we have now will not be useful in 400 years from now. Not because specialization will go away (it won’t) but because science will transform what we mean by biology, or physics, so that in 400 years we will simply see it as something different. Imagine doing experiments on electrons totally in your computer. Is that physics or computer science or what?
Posted by Kevin Kelly on March 13, 2006 at 4:38 PMOne way to advance the scientific method might be to do more experiments along the lines of Scraping ArXiv: Kludging Open Scientific Hypertext. i liked his points about layering different discussion systems atop a common layer of scientific papers.
Posted by Gregor J. Rothfuss on March 11, 2006 at 7:56 PMMy Kurzweil review is here:
http://www.sciscoop.com/story/2006/2/2/235543/1942
I guess I should have checked how the link would work, sorry…
Posted by Arthur Smith on March 9, 2006 at 8:55 PMKurzweil’s optimism depends on a “law of accelerating returns” that I find a bit dubious - you can read my comments on that here.
Some of Kevin’s notes above are already taking hold in science today. I work for a major science publisher, and while we haven’t yet published 1000-author papers, we do have some with over 600 authors, and we’re expecting the first 1000-author paper in the next few years (from the new Large Hadron Collider physics experiments in Europe). Nevertheless, the odd thing about scientific papers (or perhaps any form of serious writing) is that they can’t continuously evolve - they evolve for a short period of time as the collaboration resolves near-term issues, and the Wiki approach is I believe actually used by some large collaborations already. But then over a few weeks they decide among themselves that it’s acceptable and send it off, and are done with it (except perhaps in response to reviewer comments before final publication). I’m not sure that’s ever going to change - there has to be a static record of that sort or else we’ll be lost in Borges’ “Library of Babel”, in my opinion!
One thing you don’t mention is the nature of scientific fields. The historical pattern has been one of fragmentation, as “natural philosophy” split into mathematics, physical, and biological sciences, splitting further in a reductionist fashion so we now have dozens of specialties within what once were individual fields like physics and chemistry. But looking at recent patterns of publication, we’re seeing an odd sort of re-integration going on, through common computational and theoretical techniques at the least, and in many cases complementary experimental approaches. Nuclear physicists and molecular physicists work together since the physics of cluster and nucleus behavior shares many similarities. People look into “complexity” and see it all over the place. Physicists bring their perspective to fundamental biological research, looking at the mathematical behavior of cells under a variety of conditions for instance.
So 400 years from now, is there any chance we’ll still have “physics”, “chemistry”, and “biology” as we now understand them? Will specialization be as important with vast computer resources available to every individual? Will there even still be a separation between applied and basic research, or will the totality of science be the domain of every engineer trying to do something new in the world?
Posted by Arthur Smith on March 9, 2006 at 4:16 PMIn terms of short term forecasts I would be very interested to know your thoughts of Stephen Wolfram’s A New Kind of Science and Ray Kurzweil’s ideas of the singularity.
Wolfram says –point blank—that his discoveries of the behavior of cellular automata will revolutionize science. I had the opportunity to interview him (here is the transcript: http://www.stephenwolfram.com/interviews/clarin05english.html) and I asked him if he thought his discoveries were on par with Newton and Darwin – and he basically said yes.
Insofar as the singularity, Kurzweil dates it at approximately 2045.
In terms of your argument in this post these two individuals are going completely in the opposite direction of collaborative scientific endeavor. They are solitary, visionary, and totally extreme in their predictions.
I would enjoy to know your thoughts on these two thinkers within the context of The Technium. Have they seen something that nobody else has seen? Could they be right?
Posted by Andres Hax on March 8, 2006 at 10:01 PMCertianly you make a good statement of science optimism—onward and upward. What do you think of John Horgan’s position that science is doomed to spin wheels henceforth, that no breakthroughs of the Newton-Darwin-Einstein magnitude are in the offing? Or even conceiveable over our lifetimes.
I rather hope you’re right and he’s wrong—it’d make for a more interesting world—but I don’t know, the future could just as easily be ancient China or some version of Magister Ludi. I think there is such a thing as cultural exhaustion and I detect the early stages in America now. The iPod is cool, but it’s not the railroad, is it?
Posted by Michael Gruber on March 7, 2006 at 9:24 PMIndeed I will. It will essentially be my first public talk on the subject. It could be wonderfuly new, or embarrassingly shakey. Either way you are welcome to attend.
Posted by Kevin Kelly on March 6, 2006 at 11:12 PMKevin Kelly will give a public talk on this very subject on Friday, March 10, in San Francisco, at the Cowell Theater, Fort Mason, 7pm, admission free.
Posted by Stewart Brand on March 6, 2006 at 5:28 PMType the characters you see in the picture above.








I agree that this open, utopian view is very much needed. However the current way public researchers are measured (grants, publications, citations) effectively act as a huge barrier to academics sharing data (in particular negative results).
Until academia and government funding agencies reward collaboration, scientific discoveries will continue at a steady pace. If more researchers would collaborate, discoveries would accelerate and research funding would be better utilized.
Posted by kyle brown on April 8, 2008 at 2:42 PM