You'll shoot your eye out with that thing.

You'll shoot your eye out, kid!

You'll shoot your eye out!

You do realize that you'll shoot your eye out with that thing ....

Possibly the worst and least cool tool ever. What purpose does this serve? Are we pioneers and hunters who need to kill our food? Yeah, I hear it already "ah, c'mon, lighten up, it's just a BB gun." But really, of all the things we can expose a kid to, in the wild or in more urban environs, a gun is the best choice? Teaching them to name or draw the things they see is somehow not as useful as shooting at them? Do they get instructions on how to finish off the wounded squirrels and birds they create?

You've run some of these that I just didn't get the point of but this is beyond that.

How about a nice football?

All you wienies should get a life, it empowers a child to have a weapon in his hands.

Delighted to see that well-made quality products are till around... but must agree with Paul. Song bird populations are under way too much stress from habitat loss and domestic cats.

We really don't need children wandering around the woods with BB guns anymore... unless you're willing to train them to identify and eradicate non-native species.

We're all living on "Spaceship Earth" now, and many of our cherished old "Frontier" customs and values must be left behind. If you want your kids to play with guns, get 'em the Air Soft type.

BB guns are for target shooting only.

Teaching kids to respect firearms is just as important as teaching them to respect hammers, knives, and fire. By teaching kids early you remove the mystery and if done properly instills in the kid a healthy respect for them as tools. The Red Ryder is an excellent choice for teaching kids the basics. Its operations is simple, its relatively sturdy, though I personally would prefer a metal lever over the plastic one on todays Red Ryders. And yes while it can be dangerous short of a shot in the eye its unlikely to cause serious damage if an accident were to occur. Paul, as for your comments on the wounded birds and squirrels, yes, it will happen. I think a majority of people would be lying if they say they hadn't. But, sadly some lessons aren't learned the clean and easy way. So personally, I don't knock this as a cool tool. I would have done the write up differently. The Red Ryder is an American Icon, and I agree that all kids should get a chance to have a BB gun. Its price, ease of use, and reliability make it an excellent candidate to be a kids first BB gun.

BB stands for Blackberry (the smartphone) or for blackberries (the fruit)?

Hi Daniele,

Neither:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_%28ammunition%29

Very small shot ammunition.

Best,
Tim

You panty-wearing anti bb gun whiners...
This is a great bb gun to start young people out on shooting safety.
A real classic.
The town I live in has the highest concentration of guns, shooters, gunsmiths, gun shops etc, of anyplace in the country. We have the largest 4H shooting sports program in the world.
We have ZERO gun crime, I cannot recall any accidental shootings in (at least) the last ten years.
You teach children to handle firearms safely at a young age, and they grow up to be responsible shooters.

Well, I was attempting a joke. But judging from Julian's comment, weapons are far too serious a matter to smile about them.

Ok for a kid to have living in a rural community. No so much for any big city kid. Big risk of getting shoot by police officers.

You can hit a little bird with one of these things? Good for you.

I say we sign those kids up for service in Afghanistan.

What's wrong with you people? When will you start withholding art supplies because a kid might draw a penis or some breasts?

Fail. When I was growing up, BB guns were used for shooting songbirds, other people's pets, windows, and other mayhem. Been there. And that's not the exception, it's the rule. Even otherwise responsible kids find plinking at safe targets gets boring very fast. Teach all the "shooting safety" you want, boys will be boys.

And we can see just how civil a little gun nut can grow up to be.

One of the great things about the known demographics of a huge chunk of the Cool Tools readership is that you can see this headline in Google Reader and know TO A CERTAINTY even before clicking the link that this sort of thing will be right up there in the comment thread

"Possibly the worst and least cool tool ever. What purpose does this serve? Are we pioneers and hunters who need to kill our food?"

It never fails.

>When I was growing up, BB guns were used for shooting songbirds, other people's pets, windows, and other mayhem.
Wow, when I grew up I didn't do any of that. I even made my own gun range in the side yard with a gate so that nobody would accidentally step into my line of fire. So I guess the lesson here is, if your kid is an idiot, don't give them a bb gun.

I had a -much- more powerful pellet gun when I was 10, and I certainly never used it for shooting any birds or animals or causing any mayhem whatsoever. We used it for target shooting in a friend's large backyard. This was about 20 years ago, so it wasn't in "pioneer" days either. I think a parent should know their child's personality before giving them this responsibility, but I knew that if I caused problems with my pellet rifle, the wrath of my father would come down upon me. Today, I am a lawyer who also participates in safe firearm shooting - the pellet rifle gave me a hobby for life. For those of you who don't trust your children to not shoot animals or break windows - I'm guessing you don't believe in spanking children?

What ever for?!!

I agree that children (all of us, actually) should be taught to respect the dangers of guns. But I don't see any reason why anyone has to own one in order to learn that respect. Honestly, I'm not so sure that retaining a certain amount of mystery around guns wouldn't actually be a good thing.

A Red Ryder BB Gun is like a rite of passage for young boys. They are the least powerful BB gun on the market. Stop whining about guns & violence and maybe teach kids about safe usage of firearms. The only ones to blame when kids go on shooting sprees are the parents.

Of course children should be taught to safely shoot air rifles, and then real (gunpowder-powered) rifles and pistols that can kill. There are over 100 million firearms floating around in the United Sates, a great many of them owned by irresponsible morons. Here is the question: Do you want your child's first encounter with a firearm to occur under your supervision, or do you want it to occur in the company of the children of irresponsible morons? As a parent, you not only can, but will make that choice, whether through action or inaction.

i think all comments on that issue here are valid, not leasrt because the majority of kk readers are educated.
the sad thing is, that the majority "out there" is rather on the moronic side, so they shoot anyway with whatever, whenever at whatsoever.

If I wanted to get a gun for my kids, then it's nice to know that there is an obvious and excellent Cool Tool choice. If I don't want to get a gun, then I ignore this post. Why so much hot air about whether people should buy guns? This post is only for people who've already decided they need a tool in this category, and this is a recommendation for the best one. Not for me, but I'm glad it's here for others.

A firearm is exactly as dangerous as the moral responsibility that is taught with it. All three of my children were taught to use firearms, and both of my boys owned pellet guns. Nary a songbird or a cat was ever harmed. Only one of my adult children has a firearm- he is a Staff Sergeant in the Army. The most dangerous person is the one who owns a firearm and hasn't been taught the danger they represent. Anyone buying a child a bb gun had better understand the consequences.

@Alan: if you only teach people "to respect the dangers of guns", you're not teaching "respect". You're teaching "fear".

And you're absolutely correct: it's much easier to teach fear if you teach BLIND fear.

I think this is the part of the review that caused all the alarm:

"...You can fill it once and wander around in the woods all afternoon. All of my nieces and nephews get one when I think they are old enough."

"Nieces and Nephews"
(Not K.G.'s own children. Supervision someone else's problem)
"when they are old enough"
(No other qualifications or training required)
"Wander around in the woods all afternoon"
(Not a backyard target range. Likely that one would find a trail of dead
birds, rusty cans, and broken glass in the wake of these children)

Glad my kids have no such uncles.

What's wrong with you people? When will you start withholding art supplies because a kid might draw a penis or some breasts?

Correction: its a "spring gun" not an air powered bb rifle.

Damn! Jagur just stole my thunder!

Automobiles kill more small rodents, reptiles, songbirds, etc than boys with BB guns. How many of you anti-gun whiners have started riding bikes over your tender concern for box turtles and such?

So it's not ok for a kid to have a BB gun but perfectly ok for him to go inside and play Call of Duty or any of these hyper-realistic first person shooter games where the targets are people?

One thing there is too little of nowadays for kids is Reality Testing. You learn pretty quick about responsibility and consequences when you're allowed to have something like a BB gun. That's what growing up is. When you hurt something or kill it, it's forever, you don't get a second chance like in a game. No wonder kids today don't grow up; their parents won't let them

@ Ash says "This post is only for people who've already decided they need a tool in this category, and this is a recommendation for the best one. Not for me, but I'm glad it's here for others."

Yep. You nailed it.

For those who believe a gun entails corresponding duties, are there any suggestions of a book, pamphlet, or website with a good outline of the right training for a kid getting a BB gun? I am sure there are local gun chapters, but I am looking for a DYI version.

With proper training any fourteen year old can be made into an effective fighter.

I've fired a bunch of the Daisy Red Ryder BB guns, and I've gotta say the modern lot are noticeably poorer in quality - which is such a shame. That's not to say they aren't still nice BB guns... They're reasonably accurate, pretty rugged, have a high capacity, and are fairly priced. Luckily, I was able to prove to my folks I was responsible enough for a nice multi-pump Crosman pellet gun, instead, with a rifled barrel, and scope which was super precise. Shortly after, I graduated to my own Ruger 10/22 rifle.

Folks... It's not worth arguing with anyone who is ignorant and/or terrified of responsible firearm culture. There's no worthwhile argument you can make, to someone who isn't open to reason.

quail333 said: "With proper training any fourteen year old
can be made into an effective fighter."

I know a 14 yr old who can hit a 1x1' target at 460 yards.
He never shot anybody. He skipped the bb guns and has
3 AR15 rifles plus some others. I met him at an
Appleseed shoot in Ramseur NC. The Appleseed programs
teach gun safety, how to shoot accurately, and a good bit of
history. They also give you a good excuse to burn through
a lot of ammo.(=^_^=)
appleseedinfo.org

"There's no worthwhile argument you can make, to someone who isn't open to reason."

Indeed. In fact, I question whether any Daisy product qualifies as a tool, unless a parent has a specific educational purpose in mind. A tool must have a use, otherwise, it's a toy. A pellet gun with a scope and rifled barrel, on the other hand, can help reduce the impact of chipmunks and other vermin on an urban garden, when the only other effective choice involves poison.

A firearm is a tool. One with a very narrow use I freely admit. But a use that can't easily be replicated by any other tool. Everyone should be trained in their use. I personally am an advocate that everyone should own at least one firearm as well. A spring gun such as this is a good start for a young person. I had one. I wonder what happened to it?

Air rifles are much more powerful and accurate however. High quality ones are used for small game hunting. The Austrians even fielded a unit in the 19th century armed with air rifles.

@Alan: "Honestly, I'm not so sure that retaining a certain amount of mystery around guns wouldn't actually be a good thing."

So many "accidental" shootings occur because a child "just wanted to look at" their parent's firearm. Even with all the locks and the two-step ammunition rule, a child's curiosity, coupled with their preternatural facility to do things they just weren't supposed to be capable of, will make them say, "Hmm, I wonder what happens if I pull the trigger?"

However, if you teach your children, at the appropriate age, what happens when they pull the trigger, and how to load/unload/store their weapons, in a safe and supervised environment, then there is no more mystery and the only accidental shootings would be because of carelessness.

A Daisy BB gun is an ideal tool to teach your child with. I taught my children that way, and besides, any time spent with my children is definitely cool.

A great BB gun Igave one to my dad to scare the geese and squirlls away from the bird feeder it wirks great and even an 85 year old can load and use it

they say they need guns to protect themselves from the government if there is a need for it... but guns did not protect them to get fooled by it...

Here's an interesting viewpoint:

"Boys [aged 6-15] who own legal firearms have... lower rates of delinquency and drug use... than [boys that don't own guns]."

From our very own US Department of Justice.

http://rkba.org/research/ojjdp/urdel.pdf

Note that this is correlation, not causation. Boys that are little terrors predisposed towards drugs and delinquency aren't going to be handed firearms and responsible kids will get a BB gun when they're 5, but still it's interesting. At least it indicates that the presence of firearms doesn't turn otherwise good kids into terrors (which most of us already know, but for some this might run counter to their beliefs).

I bought one of these for my daughter about 5 years ago, when she was 5. She passed it on to her sister a couple of years later.

I thought that it was kind of flimsy, and I have had to tighten the screws a couple of times, but it held up long enough to teach both my girls the basics of shooting.

Now, at ages 8 and 10, I bring them to the range with me. Each of them has a Ruger 10/22, an AR-15, and several other .22 handguns. They understand gun safety, handle them responsibly, shoot them competently, and are certainly more confident because of it. Oh, and they've never killed anything with them, either.

A gun is nothing more than a tool. And a very cool one at that. Thanks for having the courage to post on what was certain to be a controversial item.

On the one hand the government and it's supporters fear freedom, on the other the people are irresponsible and do not deserve freedom, we have to choose our path wisely, liberty is fragile.

As long as any child getting one of these has to sit through a showing of Jean Shepard's "A Christmas Story" so that they properly understand the cultural significance of this item, I'm OK with it.

@quail333 - I trust myself with a firearm far more than the government with theirs. All people deserve freedom.

Interesting stereotyping on young boys and bb guns up there aways. I had bb guns, pellet guns, sling shots, in those early years, and never shot anything living. Dad taught me that way. Mom was horrified by it all, but allowed us the freedom after requiring me to sit for a lecture on 'men and their guns'. I feel sorry for those kids raised in fear of these objects. It's a big world out there and they'll not benefit by fearing these things as totems of evil. Better to know what they are and what they can do, and can't do.

The reason this debate exists is that guns have different meanings for different people. Some associate them with confidence, self-reliance and a love of the outdoors. Others associate them with violence, war and destruction. The thing is, both positions are completely, utterly valid – so rather than rehashing all of these tired arguments ad nauseum, maybe we should concentrate on figuring out how both sides can co-exist.

I had a BB gun when I was a boy, but I won't be buying one for my son. I'd simply rather teach him confidence, self-reliance and a love of the outdoors with things like toolboxes and sailboats than with firearms – but that's my decision, and I'm not about to push it on anyone else. The kind of divisiveness exhibited in many of these comments is like a cancer in this country, and I wish we could stop it.

My dad came from rural Missouri, then brought me up in NY City. I found guns irredeemably appalling. He told me about how kids growing up in the country would get their .22 and be in the woods with their dads learning to shoot, be careful and like each other. We never settled on common ground. I wound up training as a surgeon in the Bronx, where gun violence was hardly unknown; I associate guns with the smell of death, the wailing of loved ones, the police telling me to be careful with bullets for chains of custody, taking off bloody scrubs and showering without feeling wholly clean thereafter, the total waste and horror. So I don't think of growing up responsibly, with loving parents, when I see a toy gun. My father would have a different idea.

@Alan, Mysteries are made to be solved. That is part of the human condition. As long as mystery surrounds firearms and guns, kids will try to solve the mystery by any means possible. If you take the mystery out of the firearms, you can control what children learn, and how they learn it. If you don't take the mystery out of firearms, children will try to solve the mystery themselves, usually under circumstances with less-than-favorable results.

Get a life people. I grew up with BB guns and never shot a songbird. You need to teach your children to respect firearms and know how to properly handle them. The only time in my life that I was afraid of a firearm was when a child who wasn't properly taught about firearms found one in the gutter and pointed it at me. I immediately knew that it was not a toy and tried to convince him. He wouldn't listen and finally he agreed to give it to his mom. If he had been able to pull the trigger...

Everyone should have and teach their children gun safety and survival. People who get hurt by guns have not learned or are not following gun safety rules.
Guns like cars can be dangerous but that does not mean we should eliminate them just teach our children well. Everyone should have an idea how to take care of themselves in the wilderness if ever needed. Men are hunters and meat eaters by nature. There is nothing wrong with teaching a child to hunt and fish. Now I persoanlly do not hunt and when I fish it is catch and release but it is an important part of our lives.

Even as a grown man I am uncomfortable about the games people play now where they shoot people. I do not think that is right and it is teaching our children violence and that it is OK to kill people. Now that is sending the wrong message and irresponsible. Or the Rap songs that talk about raping and killing for the fun of it.

As a kid we walked up and down the neighborhood shooting locusts with our BB guns. We never hurt anyone or anything and our neighbors had no reason to worry about us. We were always careful and responsible.

Reading some of these comments makes me sick! If your child is out popping starlings- then you aren't parenting very well! Sure the kid deserves a BB gun! He just needs some training and education to go with it. It's a Constitutional right to own and bear arms.. and if one is going to do so- at least learn proper use and responsibility. One thing a parent should never do is to buy a kid a Daisy or other airgun, then just turn him loose on the world with it without ever reviewing proper safety or responsible use. I'm a lifelong shooter myself and it saddens me that the instant the word "gun" comes into a conversation, those against the shooting sports immediately think of KILLING! Shooting is an Olympic sport for crying out loud! There are millions of TARGET shooters in this country who have never hurt a soul. Lots of tools out there can kill, so get off your high horses antigunners and wake up and smell the coffee. It's a huge sport in the FREE nations of the world. TEACH a kid to shoot today... but just don't buy a gun for a kid and walk away and hope for the best. That's just flat out irresponsible.

I am the K.G. that the story quoted. If most of the people posting comments here were my niece or nephew they would not be getting an air rifle from me this year. Maybe a pocket knife, but certainly not an air rifle. I don't think you are ready for one yet.

Just to reiterate previous comments, this is a spring gun not an air rifle. From experience, I can say it is difficult to kill or maim an animal with the Daisy lever action, owing to its relatively low velocity. A pump action air rifle is another matter.

We decided to eliminate this controversy altogether: we skipped the Red Ryder and gave our 9 year old a .22 rifle that belonged to his great grandfather. He is learning to use it responsibly with adult supervision and will one day (soon, hopefully) take it out and go squirrel hunting so he can make fried squirrel or squirrel stew for his grandfather.

The problem I have with guns is that they're inherently destructive. I understand that learning about guns and their safe use can be a good thing, but since I have a choice, I'll let my kids play with things that are inherently constructive.

"they're inherently destructive"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Guns are tools. Intent is constructive or destructive. A firearm can be a tool for obtaining nourishment or defense. Firearms are perhaps one of the best Cool Tools ever - I'd argue that the rise of capable individual weapons that could be used even by the most frail person to kill the strongest warrior contributed greatly to individual liberty.

You're right, you do have a choice. Because you're not willing to put in any effort to ensure safe use, it's better that your kids don't have projectile weapons. Other parents are willing to make the effort, thus, their children get projectile weapons to play with safely.

@KevinKelly - For safety specific to BB guns go straight to Daisy http://daisy.com/education.html There you'll also see references to 4H shooting programs, etc. Nat'l Guard Civilian Marksmenship (http://www.odcmp.com/) is another place to contact. For general firearms safety and education, NRA is a great place to start. Firearms Education - http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp and Safety Information for Parents - http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/infoparents.asp Other good options are local sporting goods stores like Gander Mountain, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, and so on. Hands-on instruction is way more useful (and safe) than books on the subject. Local shooting ranges are good options too; they run classes. Nearly every instructor you encounter will be extreme sticklers on safety. They instill a healthy respect for the subject, and tomfoolery is never tolerated.

@Bill: Thanks for the pointers.

Yes, boys will be boys, and I can't possibly tell you the number of lizards, frogs, and other unfortunate small animals I dispatched with BB guns, sling shots, rocks, and dirt clods. If my Dad had ever caught me shooting some of the things I did with my Red Ryder, he probably would have beaten me with the thing before taking it away from me. A big part of becoming an adult is learning to accept responsibility for your actions. It is a process, and doesn't happen overnight. I was about 8 or 9 years old when I shot a little anole lizard. It was a bad shot, and only succeeded in eviscerating the poor thing. I wanted to shoot it again to put it out of its misery, but it scampered away into the foliage trailing its guts. I still vividly remember the pang of remorse I felt. That would prove to be the last time I ever shot an animal just for the pure thrill of killing it. By the time I got my first .22 rifle at age 12, I had matured to the point that hunting was serious business for me...indeed, over the next few decades I would put a substantial amount of meat on the table. But I never again shot an animal just for the sport of killing it. The moral? Everyone has to learn somehow.

I never owned a bb gun growing up, though I did go shooting with my cousin when I was 12-14 or so. He had been around guns all his life. We went to an outdoor range in the middle of nowhere outside LA (north eastish?)... and we were just shooting .22's. I have fired all sorts of guns, and it's fun to do... but they definitely aren't to be used as toys.

When firing a friend's BB gun at an even younger age, he was very adamant that we were only to shoot at the targets he and his dad had set up. And there was no way we were going to shoot each other.

I think it's a great way to learn some kind of responsibility though there are certainly other ways this can be done. If your kids are latch-key kids... and you work late, and don't live in a rural or a semi-rural area, then yeah duh a BB gun is probably going to cause more harm than good.

If you want to teach your kid about gun safety, then buy two and go shooting with them.

I moved several times in my 1950's childhood, from Colorado, to Alabama, to Maryland. In each location I knew a kid who suffered a major injury from an air rifle.The heartbreaker was a two-year-old neighbor's daughter who was shot through the eye by a fifth-grader. All of his previous victims had been neighborhood pets.

Get 'em a squirt gun!

@Hallie Truly tragic, and it shouldn't have happened. Sounds like a case of bad parenting, if it was already known the brat was shooting pets. It's not much of a leap from cruelty ageinst pets to people. That should have been stopped earlier.

@kickinkirby knives and fire are inherently destructive too. Good luck getting by without those cool tools.

Kudos to you, Kevin, for having the guts to post this despite the emotional handwringing non-arguments that you knew you would get ("accidents, get 'em a squirt gun, inherently destructive, etc."). Firearms / projectile weapons certainly meet the definition of Cool Tool. You've regained my respect after the Gibson bag debacle.

How is this a tool? Yes, I understand people think it is cool. There are plenty of websites for firearms/projectile fans. If we're going to make the definition of tool this broad and loose, we might as well start including blankets (a tool for covering your bed!), apples (a tool for filling your belly) and such.

Lets focus Kevin. c'mon now.

@ Mike Y:
As for blankets, we already have:
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001159.php
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000279.php
--es

Really? Do the folks here squealing in fear and anger in their comments have any idea when guns became so fraught with absolute danger (as a cultural phenomena)? When parents stopped educating their children about guns. For centuries...that's right...centuries...guns have been in people's homes as much as cups, and it's only the most recent, super-sophisticated, utterly brilliant, perfectly evolved, and stupidly shrill recent humans who have decided that we don't need these protective items. Get real folks. Cars kill more than guns, as do Mc D's, Bud beer, and butter. It's time to grow up and accept the fact that not everyone lives within 30 seconds of a police station. Not everyone screams from the rafters "eat local" and then drives to a Fresh Market (we actually--oh heavens--eat Bambi's dad from the back acre). So, what have we learned here? More BB guns are needed. Immediately--so that we act as responsible adults again and teach our children how to respect firearms--instead of shirking our duties as parents (you do teach your children that knives are sharp, right?). One cannot assume that parents take responsibility today. Excellent tool indeed.

I just shot my eye out with that thing. Fortunately, it was the same eye that I shot out last year. Think it was any less startling this year? It wasn't. Thank god my glass eye was in the shop and I was using my "backup" lexan eye. I have a squirt gun around here somewhere, but *you* try finding it with no depth perception. I just have to look down barrels I guess. It's kind of a thing with me.

For all of the ninnies whining about an item not befitting the designation of a Cool Tool, I suggest you consider KK's qualifications statement:
----------------------------
Cool tools really work. A cool tool can be any book, gadget, software, video, map, hardware, material, or website that is tried and true. All reviews on this site are written by readers who have actually used the tool and others like it. Items can be either old or new as long as they are wonderful. We only post things we like and ignore the rest. Suggestions for tools much better than what is recommended here are always wanted. Tell us what you love.
-----------------------------
That said, I still don't think a Red Rider would be considered a Cool Tool! It's hardly accurate, powerful, precise, well-built...etc. Maybe as a teaching tool, but there's really no reason to even purchase this type of 'throw away' item, as the youth would grow out of it in no time. I suggest going with a good progressive pump that can grow with the kid from Red Rider velocities to that nearing a 22LR's power.

Even I want one of these bad boys! http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/break-barrel/ELS177

@CT Reader and Sian,

I chould have been more eloquent; my apologies. I consider guns to be far different from fire and knives, in that neither fire nor knives (not the kind I own, anyway) ares so acutely focused on the taking of life. Of course, there are now guns that are intended for other uses, but I prefer to not invite the violent legacy of guns into my home. I can teach my kids the same lessons around a chisel or a camera as I can around a shotgun, so I just don't see the need.

And CT Reader, please don't make assumptions about what "effort" I'm willing to put into raising my kids. The fact is, I do teach them gun safety (stop, don't touch, leave the area, tell an adult). Again, the gun isn't really needed.

@Adam et al.,

If you teach a child that they need a gun to be safe in this world, you're instilling in them a fear that will likely affect them the rest of their life. It's subtle and insidious, but don’t doubt that it’s real. The evidence is right here in these comments: again and again, the gun enthusiasts have expressed irrational fear of the twin bogeymen of crime and nefarious government. I live in a relatively gritty, urban neighborhood in a state known for corrupt politics, but I can only surmise that the man who feels compelled to sleep with a shotgun under his bed fears far more than I do. ("Squealing in fear, indeed.) Getting to know your neighbors, being active in your community, and using simple common sense will offer your family far more security than a gun ever will.

Having said that, I don't have any real taste for gun control. But I also don't have any real taste for anyone telling me I should have a gun in my home, as a number of commenters here have. If you're all so giddy about personal freedom, you should be delighted that I exercised mine when I chose not to own a gun.

QUOTE "The evidence is right here in these comments: again and again, the gun enthusiasts have expressed irrational fear of the twin bogeymen of crime and nefarious government. "

Allright, where?
I just went through and re-read all the comments preceeding yours,and-
nothing of the sort was stated in ANY of them.

"If you teach a child that they need a gun to be safe in this world, you're instilling in them a fear that will likely affect them the rest of their life"

Who here, or what accredited program is teaching this?

If a reasonsible adult wishes to assert their constiutional right by legally owning a firearm for personal protection, that hardly qualifies as them as succumbing to a lifelong fear.

"Getting to know your neighbors, being active in your community, and using simple common sense will offer your family far more security than a gun ever will."
WHAT BUNK-

I wrote the preceeding post, but neglected to enter my name.

I'll grant your first point -- there are a couple of comments that refer to defending oneself from the government or criminals ( (i.e. "I trust myself with a firearm far more than the government with theirs," or, "grow up and accept the fact that not everyone lives within 30 seconds of a police station") but "again and again" was an inappropriate exaggeration. Since those are not uncommon sentiments among gun enthusiasts, I hope you can excuse the careless phrase.

But as discomforting as the realization may be, buying a gun for personal protection is pretty much the definition of succumbing to a fear. So are locking one's doors, installing a smoke detector, using seat belts, or doing any of the myriad other things we do to keep ourselves safe -- but claiming any of those are actions aren't based on fear is disingenuous at best.

As for your (less-than-well-substantiated) claim of bunk, well, you'll believe what you choose to believe. But the measures I've mentioned (getting to know your neighbors, being active in your community, using simple common sense) are safe, fundamental and proven methods of reducing crime. Moreover, they make my family safer even if I'm not awake, or alert, or at home -- or within arm's reach of a gun.

@seefdublew Well stated. Fear is good. Fear keeps you safe and alive. Actions based on fears should also have a firm grounding in reasoned and clear-headed thought.

And can't I buy a gun because they're a blast to use? ;)

Sian, that's actually the only reason for owning a gun that makes sense to me! Guns ARE a heck of a lot of fun, I agree.

@Adam,

The idea that I would have to bring a gun into my home in order to teach my kids to respect guns is silly. Should I also set my house on fire to teach my kids how to escape a fire? Luckily, we can teach our kids about all kinds of dangers without actually exposing them to them.

I’ve been lurking in this thread for a while, but I feel compelled to offer my two-cents worth after reading seefdublew’s comments.

After grad school, my girlfriend and I lived in an extremely rough neighborhood in LA. It was bad, but it was the only thing we could afford in that area while we worked on starting our careers. There were drug dealers on the corners and incredible amounts of gun violence, both random and gang-related. I immediately bought two guns to keep in the house, thinking I needed them to defend us, while my girlfriend spent her time building relationships in the neighborhood. We argued about it a lot; I thought she was putting herself in harm’s way, but it didn’t take me long to come around when I realized that her approach was far more effective than mine.

During the three years we lived there, we found ourselves in potentially dangerous situations several times (at least three attempted burglaries, one suspicious fire, and a foiled mugging) and in each case, the neighborhood support and awareness that my girlfriend fostered saved us. Not only did our neighbors keep an eye out for us, but I eventually discovered that we were considered off-limits by certain elements in the neighborhood, only because we were respected and connected to the community. Those same people couldn’t have cared less if we had guns; everyone had guns. Ours remained locked away the entire time, and I’ve since sold them.

@kickinkirby

Actually, it's silly to equate setting your house on fire with gun ownership. So is the idea that kids ought to be shielded from everything "dangerous."

My girls (ages 8 and 10) get to do a lot of dangerous things. They have guns, bows and arrows, and knives. They get to play with fire. They're learning to use power tools. They cook real food on a hot stove. They're learning to fight. They ride their bikes in downtown traffic.

The world is a dangerous place. Learning to face fears, handle hazardous objects, and master dangerous skills does something good for children. It gives them competence and an aptitude for finding the opportunities presented by life's dangers. It gives them confidence, rather than the empty and fragile modern substitute "self-esteem." It makes them strong, smart and independent, if it doesn't kill them, first.

Yes, there is that risk. But it is a worthy one, when one considers what is to be gained. If a child dies acquiring the skills to become a self-reliant, mature adult, it is a tragedy, of course. But better to risk it than to settle for a more certain future of dependence and mediocrity.

My greatest fear for my daughters is not that they will die, but that they when they are grown, there will be no men left who are worthy of them.

@Ultrasonoman,

It’s a silly analogy, I know, but I think it still makes the point: we don’t have to invite a danger into our homes in order to teach our kids about it. But in general, I do agree with the sentiments you’ve expressed, so your point is very well-taken. I abhor this trend towards sanitizing childhood. I expose my kids to a lot of things that would likely make most parents shudder, but I choose to draw the line at firearms. I consider the benefit too small, and too easily replaced by other means, to warrant the risk.

I was actually raised around guns, and owned a shotgun from the age of ten. My dad took every opportunity to impress upon me the respect that firearms require: he taught me gun safety, took me to classes at the local range, and always handled and stored his own firearms in a completely safe manner. But, despite his best efforts, I still did stupid, careless, irresponsible things with guns when he wasn’t around -- not because I was an idiot or because I was malicious, but because I was a KID. (I also played with illegal fireworks, drank beer, smoked pot, and snuck out in the family car long before I had my license, as I'm sure many of us did.) Kids have immature brains that simply don't have the ability to consistently make good decisions for themselves, nor the ability to recognize the permanent implications of the particularly bad ones. It's the nature of being a kid. And the nature of being a parent is to offer guidance, and within certain limits, protection. I think you and I just disagree a little about where those certain limits should fall. Fair enough.

In the end, I don’t consider guns to be a requirement for self-reliance – quite the contrary. I’d prefer my kids learn how to make their way in this world without relying on them. That, to me, sounds like a truer form of independence.

I would like to acknowledge the many thoughtful postings from readers in recent days. Including, but not exclusive, those from @kirkinkirby,@sian, @seefdublew, @ultrasonoman, @bloomduck, etc. I appreciate the way you have focused on keeping the discussion civil and polite. The usual way that forums on these hot-button topics unwind is that they start out tolerable and then devolve into name calling and worse. The opposite seemed to have happened here. The discussion got better. I have learned a lot. Thanks for hanging in and improving it. Carry on!

As an immigrant Brit I probably have a different view of firearms to most Americans...
However I have been out to a shooting range with some of my in-laws and enjoyed the safe aspects of shooting a variety of firearms at targets.

The only dangerous moment in the entire experience was when some idiots on horseback decided to ignore the signs on the fences either side of the river and ride up the river in the middle of the range. We did cease fire until they were safely through the range.

My one word of warning about this would be to check local laws for legality of using this in your own yard. Here it is illegal to use any firearm including air rifles within the city limits unless it is at a properly licenced range, or with a vermin licence.

Z.

@bloomduck

Kudos to you and your girlfriend for fostering community relationships. I've found that building community relationships in my rough neighborhood to be valuable and an easy crime prevention measure. You indeed were in the wrong, thinking that merely owning a gun was pretty much the only thing you needed to do to be safe. I'm glad you came around to the need for community relationships and how valuable they can be.

Going out among the members of my community to plan neighborhood activities, raise awareness, and check up on the elderly is made much easier and safer (for me) by the legal pistol I carry invisibly under my shirt. :) No reason you can't be pro-gun and a well-connected member of your community at the same time. :)

"All three of my children were taught to use firearms, and both of my boys owned pellet guns. Nary a songbird or a cat was ever harmed."

I'm quite certain that the parents of my acquaintances who engaged in that sort of behavior would have said the same.

I had the same sort of experiences as kickinkirby. Of course my parents taught me all about how to responsibly use my BB gun. Of course I did stupid things with it. That's simply what kids do. It's more fun to shoot at moving targets.

This is what i would recommend if your kid wants to shoot things:
- Start by building a home-made projectile launcher. water balloon slings (note: also potentially eye-damaging), slingshots, etc
- Try archery, darts
- Only after that, move to BB guns. I would suggest an air rifle over the springy ones. Force your kid to always wear protective eyewear when handling the rifle. No matter how much you train them, they're going to do something stupid with them. OK, your brilliant amazing kid won't, but everyone else's will...

It doesn't matter how hard you drill your kids, a BB gun will never seem like a "real" gun to them and they will never TRULY learn gun safety with it because they will feel its ok to misuse it when no one is looking. I know because that was my experience and the experience of every other kid I talked to who grew up in the hills of Northern Michigan. A child should be started on a small caliber rifle with the supervision of an experienced shooter/ elder figure. Even as a child, I NEVER misused my rifle although my airgun was used for all sorts of tom foolery. Leave BB guns at the county fair shooting gallery where they belong and teach your kids to be SERIOUS when they have a rifle in their hands.

Note that the Red Ryder is sized for a child's hands. If you are looking for an airgun for someone over 14 years old or so, you should look for another one. I recently purchased a Daisy Powerline 880S and and I'm happy with it.

I now shoot cardboard boxes until they are D-E-D dead, I tell you!

If anyone's interested, the actual original Red Ryder BB gun used in "A Christmas Story", which I think many of my generation regard as a sacred cultural artifact, is on display at the St. Catherines Museum in Ontario near the town where parts of the movie was filmed.

http://www.stcatharineslock3museum.ca/index.html

Your ticket also gets you into the co-located WellandsCanal Center and the Ontario LaCrosse Hall of Fame.

"A firearm is exactly as dangerous as the moral responsibility that is taught with it."

That statement assumes that practical competence tracks with moral responsibility. It doesn't. Many people are incompetent at many things. In most cases, people who are incompetent are not aware that they are incompetent.

I support firearms rights. Unlike so many others who do, I admit that there is as substantial and inevitable societal cost imposed by firearms rights. People will be needlessly killed. This is also true of automobiles. Increased risk is one of the costs of living in a free society. It sickens me that so many gun rights advocates argue otherwise.